Ongoing draft/lottery discussion [OPEN SPOILERS]
- Thread starter hrdboild
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Probably just doing their due diligence. Especially when a player is suddenly getting that kind of attention, it never hurts to bring him in and judge for yourself.
Plus, you never know if years down the road, the team has a chance to trade/sign Payne. Teams sure as heck can't work out a guy before they sign or trade for him.
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Plus, you never know if years down the road, the team has a chance to trade/sign Payne. Teams sure as heck can't work out a guy before they sign or trade for him.
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Regarding Darren Collison, I remember clearly that while at UCLA he always feasted on the minnows and struggled against good teams; at least for his freshman and soph years when I was paying attention. When Collison was talking of coming out after his soph year, I was thinking, "This kid never played well against good competition. Is he going to come into the league and get overwhelmed?" But I think this issue went away during his senior year.
At any rate, for those looking at Collison's college stats, for his first two years in college, take note that those stats is heavily padded by many monster games against inferior teams.
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At any rate, for those looking at Collison's college stats, for his first two years in college, take note that those stats is heavily padded by many monster games against inferior teams.
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https://twitter.com/carmichaeldave/status/608061021434036225
Interesting tweet from CD......there is a great chance that none of these guys are there at 6.
Interesting tweet from CD......there is a great chance that none of these guys are there at 6.
I think the best fit for the Kings is the guy everyone is scared of Porzingis. I don't understand how he can be considered the biggest BOOM or BUST player? Those guys are the freak athlete, Darius Miles, type of guys that are extreamly raw and have very little developed skillset but their freak athletisim puts them in a special class. Porzingis has skills AND is an excellent athlete at the age of 18! Don't be afraid of him because of Darkos storyline. As silly as that line of thinking is it is the MAIN reason I read of why to stay away from this kid. There are plenty of star and solid foreign players for every Darko. No need to stereotype based on that stuff. Look at the kid individually and what he brings. Of course he has holes. All the prospects do. But what makes his more BUST potential than any of the other players? His slight frame? He is 18 guys he has a lot of growing to do. I think it is great that the biggest knock on him has to do with adding some muscle to his frame and his biggest strengths are developed skills that compliment Cousins wonderfully! The dude can shoot! I think this makes him safer than a lot of players because he is a great athlet AND he can shoot! People have long time wanted us to bring in the stretch 4 Ryan Anderson type of player...big downside to there is the lack of D. From what I gather there is plenty to believe Porzingins not only be a fine shooter to help stretch the floor, but also has the athletic ability and the DESIRE to defend. He has good quickness combined with his length to be a fine Pick N Roll Defender and to help as an off ball shotblocker, which are 2 of the biggest reasons people want WCS so much. Porzingins has the tools and the DESIRE to play D. On D I think Porzingins is a good fit for our personel. Cousins defends the post guy and Porz the other guy. On offense the fit is obvious as Porz sstretches the floor or uses his speed for setting pics, off ball movement, alley oops or offensive tips.
He is a gifted 7ft athlete that at the age of 18 has already developed some nice skills that complement Cousins game. Whats the big knock on him..He is slight of frame but he is only 18! So what? I don't see this as too big of a deal because of the monster he will be playing next too. So what he can't pound the boards...we have COUSINS. There will be no rebounds even available in there because the boogie man will be eating them.
He is a gifted 7ft athlete that at the age of 18 has already developed some nice skills that complement Cousins game. Whats the big knock on him..He is slight of frame but he is only 18! So what? I don't see this as too big of a deal because of the monster he will be playing next too. So what he can't pound the boards...we have COUSINS. There will be no rebounds even available in there because the boogie man will be eating them.
K
Yeah on the flip side if this is another crap season Cuz/Gay are pretty much gone and we need younger players with potential to build around. We are in a tough spot due to what occurred this season and we still don't know if this team is capable over a 82 games season with it's core to even get us into the playoffs. I always think when you don't know you draft the guy you deem has the biggest potential regardless of position.
If I were certain we could make the playoffs than it's a different story but atm we just don't know.
If I were certain we could make the playoffs than it's a different story but atm we just don't know.
Everyone, who is smart enough does that. I present you with another guy, who apparently takes only open shots as well: http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201935/tracking/shots/?Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular Season
4.4 out of 6.8 outside shots were open
D'Angelo Russell says "Hi!". Somehow, he's still considered a top3 pick.
Everyone pads their stats on weak part of schedule.
4.4 out of 6.8 outside shots were open
D'Angelo Russell says "Hi!". Somehow, he's still considered a top3 pick.
Everyone pads their stats on weak part of schedule.
This team won't make the playoff by adding a 6th pick rookie in the starting lineup.
We are better off picking up vets right now who will understand Karl's system and the NBA culture right away.
If we get a chance to buy low Rondo right now and get some vet big man (i.e. Koufos or Brendan Wright), we should be able to move forward with any top 10 talent from this draft, as long as Rudy and DMC are healthy.
Karl is legit intelligent coach, he made something out of the stones of Denver way back. Coach of the year and all.
Have faith my fellow kingsfans.
We are better off picking up vets right now who will understand Karl's system and the NBA culture right away.
If we get a chance to buy low Rondo right now and get some vet big man (i.e. Koufos or Brendan Wright), we should be able to move forward with any top 10 talent from this draft, as long as Rudy and DMC are healthy.
Karl is legit intelligent coach, he made something out of the stones of Denver way back. Coach of the year and all.
Have faith my fellow kingsfans.
I'm with you on that too. Not that a Channing Frye player wouldn't help us, but probably doesn't warrant the #6 pick in the draft. I think our outside shooting has been so bad over the past few seasons that we tend to focus on it too much, overvalue it, that's why we like Porzingis. Now we do need to improve our shooting, but I think that can come from free agency and the development of the players that we already have.
We do need to get better fast, we don't want Cousins to start to think about leaving, but I'm not sure that player is in this draft. Welcome to the one and done drafts. Even Cauley-Stein will take time to contribute, in my opinion. He has little offensive game to think of and even defensively he won't be able to rely on his athletic gifts as much in the NBA.
I don't always feel this way, but in this draft I think boom or bust is the best way to go if the right player is there and I think it's worth it if it's Mudiay. He could change everything, at worst perhaps a Jason Williams type who brings excitement for us and for the team which makes it better. At best there may be an all-star caliber player there.
With all of that being said though, my first vote is to trade the pick, if the value is there.
We do need to get better fast, we don't want Cousins to start to think about leaving, but I'm not sure that player is in this draft. Welcome to the one and done drafts. Even Cauley-Stein will take time to contribute, in my opinion. He has little offensive game to think of and even defensively he won't be able to rely on his athletic gifts as much in the NBA.
I don't always feel this way, but in this draft I think boom or bust is the best way to go if the right player is there and I think it's worth it if it's Mudiay. He could change everything, at worst perhaps a Jason Williams type who brings excitement for us and for the team which makes it better. At best there may be an all-star caliber player there.
With all of that being said though, my first vote is to trade the pick, if the value is there.
My thought is that if for some reason any of the top three were to drop (Towns, Russell, Okafor) you take them. Okafor is a terrible fit but he absolutely has a certain NBA talent with his post scoring. Great footwork, size, body control etc.
With that being unlikely my next two targets would be WCS and Mudiay. Mudiay gives you star potential and WCS instantly upgrades the teams P&R defense and rim protection.
My big fear though is that those are the five players drafted before the Kings pick. Honestly at that point I don't know who I'd draft and I would be okay with a trade down.
With that being unlikely my next two targets would be WCS and Mudiay. Mudiay gives you star potential and WCS instantly upgrades the teams P&R defense and rim protection.
My big fear though is that those are the five players drafted before the Kings pick. Honestly at that point I don't know who I'd draft and I would be okay with a trade down.
Russel is not overly quick, do you have any concerns NBA guards can stay close to him making his jumper less reliable than it was in college?
Mudiay shot under 60% from the line, indicating a likely career long issue, any concern he will never develop a decent outside game?
For now I don't see either one of them as 100% homeruns.
Mudiay shot under 60% from the line, indicating a likely career long issue, any concern he will never develop a decent outside game?
For now I don't see either one of them as 100% homeruns.
I have concerns with both. Less so with Russell. If he's playing the PG his size and quick release means he'll generally be able to get his shot off. And because Russell can play off the ball he's a great fit with Cousins. My bigger concerns with Russell actually revolve around whether he'll be able to effectively guard NBA PGs and how he'll do bringing the ball up/protecting the ball against NBA PGs. He has a good handle and good quickness for a SG, but not necessarily for a PG.
With Mudiay the fear is that he's Tyreke part 2 only with slightly better passing, slightly less strength and lacking Evan's ridiculous handle. Whether he develops his shot and improves his free throws is really about whether he puts in the work to fix his mechanics and do the repetitions he needs.
With Mudiay the fear is that he's Tyreke part 2 only with slightly better passing, slightly less strength and lacking Evan's ridiculous handle. Whether he develops his shot and improves his free throws is really about whether he puts in the work to fix his mechanics and do the repetitions he needs.
Ive changed my mind on my preferred 2nd option for the #6 pick. In my mind if WCS isnt there then id have to take Porzingis. If his shooting ability and lateral quickness can carryover into the NBA then i dont think you can make much of a case for anyone other than WCS as the kings #6 pick. Of course youd have to assume that he will become strong enough to hold his position when defending the post. Stock up on bigs i say.
Edit- I just remembered that Vlade doesnt think hes ready to play in the NBA.
Edit- I just remembered that Vlade doesnt think hes ready to play in the NBA.
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I just started taking looks at Russel, he was initially out of reach, still is, but just in case something crazy happens draft night I've been looking at him for a bit, especially compared to Mudiay, pro's cons between the two.
Russel actually has a slow release on his shot correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong, just started to look at him.
Another concern is the pg is pretty solid almost everywhere in the NBA right now, if we were to draft or trade up/down for one I'd like to feel pretty good about the choice.
These concerns make me feel better about drafting someone with defensive skills/potential. Like Winslow or WCS. I still need to take a better look at Johnson, but with so many good pg's out there, I'd like to make sure the prospect gets a pretty good look at.
Russel actually has a slow release on his shot correct?
Correct me if I'm wrong, just started to look at him.
Another concern is the pg is pretty solid almost everywhere in the NBA right now, if we were to draft or trade up/down for one I'd like to feel pretty good about the choice.
These concerns make me feel better about drafting someone with defensive skills/potential. Like Winslow or WCS. I still need to take a better look at Johnson, but with so many good pg's out there, I'd like to make sure the prospect gets a pretty good look at.
I wouldn't say I have no concerns - no player is a sure thing. He's not awfully athletic (though I don't think he's a bad athlete), he's not a very good defender at this point. He didn't play well in Ohio's last game.
But I have no glaring worries. I'm not sure how many minutes he'll be good enough to get as a rookie, but I don't doubt that he will be one of the best rookies and probably challenging for ROY. There's not really anything he can't do offensively, and he just has that old-man craftiness already that guys like Harden and Irving have. And obviously, he's already an excellent shooter and passer. I think he'd be a good pairing with Collison actually as both can play both guard spots, but I don't think it's really worth thinking about as I think there's zero chance he's there at 6.
But I have no glaring worries. I'm not sure how many minutes he'll be good enough to get as a rookie, but I don't doubt that he will be one of the best rookies and probably challenging for ROY. There's not really anything he can't do offensively, and he just has that old-man craftiness already that guys like Harden and Irving have. And obviously, he's already an excellent shooter and passer. I think he'd be a good pairing with Collison actually as both can play both guard spots, but I don't think it's really worth thinking about as I think there's zero chance he's there at 6.
Russell is not ready to be a starting PG in the NBA. If somehow he fell to the Kings he'd back up Collison and possibly get some minutes as a backup SG (depending on what the Kings do at the SG position) but I wouldn't expect a lot of production out of him his rookie year.
I think Russell can definitely make a claim to being the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in this draft but I actually have fewer concerns about WCS and Justice Winslow.
I worry about him defending NBA PGs though I had the same concern with Michael Carter-Williams (even more so there because of Syracuse's full time zone D) but like MCW I think Russell will do okay because of his length and decent lateral quickness. Whether he can dribble against pressure from opposing PGs I don't know. I also worry about Russell's struggles against good teams and feasting on poor ones. I know the common defense there is that ALL players do better against worse teams etc. But I think it's more than that. I think Russell is a great shooter but he's not a great athlete and he's not super crafty attacking the rim. And I think his struggles against better teams came because when he faces bigger and/or stronger defenders he doesn't really have anything he does exceptionally well to score the ball outside of being a good outside shooter. He doesn't have blow by speed, a super slick handle/moves or the ability to absorb contact and either get to the line or finish in traffic.
Out of Towns, Russell and Okafor I think Russell actually has the highest bust potential. And since Okafor doesn't fit with the Kings and Towns is absolutely not going to slip to us I think I'm pretty content with taking whoever is left of Cauley-Stein, Mudiay or Winslow.
I really dislike the idea of taking yet another SG and I don't think Winslow is a great fit but I think he's a very safe pick who will, at the very least, have a long NBA career barring serious injury. I think there's a very high possibility that he'll at least be a better player than Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and I think his high end comparison is Andre Iguodala with perhaps not quite as good passing but better shooting.
That said, I hope Porzingis and Winslow go #4 and #5 giving the Kings their choice of Mudiay or Cauley-Stein. I think Winslow would fit very nicely with the Magic but I'm hearing they like Porzingis. Of course, what I really want is for Phil Jackson to shake up the draft by grabbing somebody way higher than projected and then have that player be a bust.
I think Russell can definitely make a claim to being the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in this draft but I actually have fewer concerns about WCS and Justice Winslow.
I worry about him defending NBA PGs though I had the same concern with Michael Carter-Williams (even more so there because of Syracuse's full time zone D) but like MCW I think Russell will do okay because of his length and decent lateral quickness. Whether he can dribble against pressure from opposing PGs I don't know. I also worry about Russell's struggles against good teams and feasting on poor ones. I know the common defense there is that ALL players do better against worse teams etc. But I think it's more than that. I think Russell is a great shooter but he's not a great athlete and he's not super crafty attacking the rim. And I think his struggles against better teams came because when he faces bigger and/or stronger defenders he doesn't really have anything he does exceptionally well to score the ball outside of being a good outside shooter. He doesn't have blow by speed, a super slick handle/moves or the ability to absorb contact and either get to the line or finish in traffic.
Out of Towns, Russell and Okafor I think Russell actually has the highest bust potential. And since Okafor doesn't fit with the Kings and Towns is absolutely not going to slip to us I think I'm pretty content with taking whoever is left of Cauley-Stein, Mudiay or Winslow.
I really dislike the idea of taking yet another SG and I don't think Winslow is a great fit but I think he's a very safe pick who will, at the very least, have a long NBA career barring serious injury. I think there's a very high possibility that he'll at least be a better player than Michael Kidd-Gilchrist and I think his high end comparison is Andre Iguodala with perhaps not quite as good passing but better shooting.
That said, I hope Porzingis and Winslow go #4 and #5 giving the Kings their choice of Mudiay or Cauley-Stein. I think Winslow would fit very nicely with the Magic but I'm hearing they like Porzingis. Of course, what I really want is for Phil Jackson to shake up the draft by grabbing somebody way higher than projected and then have that player be a bust.
So it's Winslow or WCS and Winslow isn't a SG he's a SF/SG. His work ethic will be huge if he can get his shot to resemble what kawi Leonard is today watch out.
I like Porzingis also and he's a great fit. I'd hate it if we don't take him cause of some he's not ready nonsense. You don't know that he can come in and suprise everyone. Nik really had a great year for someone who was thought of as a nba ready player
I like Porzingis also and he's a great fit. I'd hate it if we don't take him cause of some he's not ready nonsense. You don't know that he can come in and suprise everyone. Nik really had a great year for someone who was thought of as a nba ready player