Isaiah Thomas watch
- Thread starter sdballer
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As one of the biggest IT proponents on here, I want to give my two cents on what seems to be developing here.
IT is a hell of an offensive talent, my pessimism of letting him go was based on the assumption that this team would continue to be a meh defensive unit so his scoring punch would at least keep us in games.
However what we have seen early is an identity starting to form for us, one of very good team defense anchored by DMC(this and DC have been the biggest difference). We are becoming an old school defend you, leak out with our athletes if possible, if not punish you slowly into submission with our beast, all with a PG who plays at a more in contol pace(despite being lightning quick). If that is our identity, this would be the first time a post Rick Adelman era Kings team can say they have an identity. In that identity IT doesnt fit, certainly not as a starter, he would be fine as a sixth man, but if he truly wasnt wanted here, so be it. Kings winning trumps everything for me.
I will always be an IT fan, the guy plays his heart out every night(which can only be said about a small batch of NBA players). He found a team that fits him to a tee. They have their identity and we are forming ours. I for one am done with the woulda, coulda, shoulda. I will cheer for IT from afar(except when he plays us), and cheer for our Kings louder.
IT is a hell of an offensive talent, my pessimism of letting him go was based on the assumption that this team would continue to be a meh defensive unit so his scoring punch would at least keep us in games.
However what we have seen early is an identity starting to form for us, one of very good team defense anchored by DMC(this and DC have been the biggest difference). We are becoming an old school defend you, leak out with our athletes if possible, if not punish you slowly into submission with our beast, all with a PG who plays at a more in contol pace(despite being lightning quick). If that is our identity, this would be the first time a post Rick Adelman era Kings team can say they have an identity. In that identity IT doesnt fit, certainly not as a starter, he would be fine as a sixth man, but if he truly wasnt wanted here, so be it. Kings winning trumps everything for me.
I will always be an IT fan, the guy plays his heart out every night(which can only be said about a small batch of NBA players). He found a team that fits him to a tee. They have their identity and we are forming ours. I for one am done with the woulda, coulda, shoulda. I will cheer for IT from afar(except when he plays us), and cheer for our Kings louder.
This is entirely rationale and well thought out.
One pet peeve, and we heard it from grant and jerry, and I heard it from both the lakers crew and the Suns crew last night, is the "heart" factor. I know he's small and what he does is impressive. But every player has heart. Every player wants it. It's a nice narrative. Sometimes, it's absolutely true of IT. But once he left here, we also heard Kayte say something to the effect of "He just didn't care about defense." That, I think, is also true and that remains true in PHX. I posted video evidence somewhere up there.
The hustling narrative is a wonderful one, but as for poor fit, it was because the hustle and heart just didn't translate to both ends of the court. The Kings needed a defender of at least avg ability at the point of attack. IT was never going to be that. Which side you were on in the IT debates seemed to strongly lean one way or the other based on the ability to only remember the half of IT that the individual felt was most important.
One pet peeve, and we heard it from grant and jerry, and I heard it from both the lakers crew and the Suns crew last night, is the "heart" factor. I know he's small and what he does is impressive. But every player has heart. Every player wants it. It's a nice narrative. Sometimes, it's absolutely true of IT. But once he left here, we also heard Kayte say something to the effect of "He just didn't care about defense." That, I think, is also true and that remains true in PHX. I posted video evidence somewhere up there.
The hustling narrative is a wonderful one, but as for poor fit, it was because the hustle and heart just didn't translate to both ends of the court. The Kings needed a defender of at least avg ability at the point of attack. IT was never going to be that. Which side you were on in the IT debates seemed to strongly lean one way or the other based on the ability to only remember the half of IT that the individual felt was most important.
Words can't describe how healthy it was for IT to leave...I have been catching these Phoenix Suns games just to watch how IT performs, sure..he scores but man his body language is terrible compared to what we are seeing with Darren. I can't remember the last time the Kings players gave each other so many high fives during one game...it's really night and day instead of just moping around complaining. It really is a breathe of fresh air.
These two are incongruous. And it's bugged the hell out of me for a long time. I'm siding with Kayte on this one, and my own eyes. You can't have heart if you don't try on defense.
What IT does have loads of is ego and self-interest. That can look like "heart" if you're hustling on offense, but is revealed as complete self interest when you look at the whole picture. IT never bought into the team concept. That's not my definition of "heart".
What IT does have loads of is ego and self-interest. That can look like "heart" if you're hustling on offense, but is revealed as complete self interest when you look at the whole picture. IT never bought into the team concept. That's not my definition of "heart".
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Hardly. That's laughable. A quick look at D-Will and what happens with a loose ball in his vicinity and Thomas when a ball is within his vicinity is all you have to do. It's case closed after that. D-Will: Look, look, look, think about the loose ball, should I, shouldn't I, yeah, I guess coach might get after me if I don't. IT: See ball, get ball. The defense thing is also totally exaggerated by those who don't like him. That's a nice narrative.
I never compared dwill to IT.
All I'm saying, is that the idea the IT tries harder than everyone else every night is not true. It never has been. His effort comes and goes like everyone else. Sure, he hustles more than some guys. And less that others. He's not the gold standard for hustle though. JT has been busting his ass this season to little fanfare. I think there tends to be a slight exaggeration on the hustle heart part due to his size. People don't expect fearless from a small guy, and IT is that. But hustle is more than diving for loose balls.
As for defense, it's the truth. IT is not a great defender. Can't you see the difference in this team defensively with DC out there?
All I'm saying, is that the idea the IT tries harder than everyone else every night is not true. It never has been. His effort comes and goes like everyone else. Sure, he hustles more than some guys. And less that others. He's not the gold standard for hustle though. JT has been busting his ass this season to little fanfare. I think there tends to be a slight exaggeration on the hustle heart part due to his size. People don't expect fearless from a small guy, and IT is that. But hustle is more than diving for loose balls.
As for defense, it's the truth. IT is not a great defender. Can't you see the difference in this team defensively with DC out there?
The bolded is mere speculation on your part. Collison signed here because we offered more money than anyone else, including the Clippers who had other plans with their money. In fact, Collison himself considered returning to the Clippers had the money been there. Unless you can show that there was some kind of promise that Collison would be the starter, without which Collison would have signed elsewhere, it remains a twisted interpretation of the progress of events.
Here are some facts that question your interpretation of the situation:
1) The Kings signed Darren Collison before Isaiah got his deal with the Suns.
2) After signing with the Suns, the Kings had the option to match and declined.
3) Isaiah is currently coming off the bench for the Suns.
4) Last season he was coming off the bench behind the utterly useless Vasquez
Isaiah wants to start and will compete for the starting job. But so far he's done nothing but played excellently off the bench. So if you wanted to start Collison, you could have started Collison and kept IT.
And even if you wanted to eventually let IT go, PDA could have kept him as a trade asset for later use. He didn't. He chose the trade exception. Thats not a "straw man". That is reality.
Here are some facts that question your interpretation of the situation:
1) The Kings signed Darren Collison before Isaiah got his deal with the Suns.
2) After signing with the Suns, the Kings had the option to match and declined.
3) Isaiah is currently coming off the bench for the Suns.
4) Last season he was coming off the bench behind the utterly useless Vasquez
Isaiah wants to start and will compete for the starting job. But so far he's done nothing but played excellently off the bench. So if you wanted to start Collison, you could have started Collison and kept IT.
And even if you wanted to eventually let IT go, PDA could have kept him as a trade asset for later use. He didn't. He chose the trade exception. Thats not a "straw man". That is reality.