Actually he's 18 years old, and yes, he needs work on his pick and roll defense. Guess what, so did JT and Cousins for the last 3 or 4 years. I'm not denying that he's raw in some areas, but his strength was in the post. His efficiency shooting the ball from the outside was very good, but he only averaged 1 shot a game, and only averaged 7 shots a game overall. He's young, and you'd be drafting him for his upside to a large degree. But he's a good athlete with very good length for the PF position. Unlike some of the other guys in the draft, I only saw Vonleh play around 12 or 13 times because Indiana wasn't on as much as some of the other teams, and they missed the tournament. But I think I saw enough of him to get an idea of what kind of player he is.
Looking Ahead to Next Season...
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Do not understand the desire for a PF..let alone Vonleh.
No one has really posted any information about Vonleh, well here it is.
Noah Vonleh 19 yearolds from Indiana.
Height: 6'10
Weight: 242lbs
Wingspan: 7'4
30 gp 26.5 minutes 11.3 pts 9.0 rebs 1.4 blks 0.9stls 2.1tos 2.7pfs
0.530 2p% 0.485 3p% 0.716 ft%
Positives in his game
-Great build and frame
-Powerful and uses his strength to his advantage in the paint against defenders
-Good post up defender
-Great rebounder and good ability to box out
-Capable shooting the 3
-Decent ft shooter
-Hook shot
-Defensive potential because of build
Negatives in his game
-Poor offensive player
-No post moves aside from the hook
-Poor footwork
-Low bball iq on both ends of the floor
-Stone hands
-Poor PnR defender
-Looks lost at times on D and placement on the floor
-Lacks skill and relies more on strength
-High foul rate and bites on a lot of fakes
-Even with 7'4 wingspan, not a very good blocker
I think there are more negatives than positives. Next year the kings have Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Reggie Evans, Quincy Acy, and Derrick Williams available at PF and under contract. A lot of people claim that he's a great defender, but everything on tape does not suggest that. He's not that rim protector that fans have been dying for and he's not a great defender. He has defensive potential, but I don't see how he will make this team's defense better. What does he offer that JT doesn't? I don't like comparing players, but he sounds like a JT duplicate with less offense. Great rebounder, good post up defender, good ft shooter for size, and stone hands. What would he offer that JT doesn't?
No one has really posted any information about Vonleh, well here it is.
Noah Vonleh 19 yearolds from Indiana.
Height: 6'10
Weight: 242lbs
Wingspan: 7'4
30 gp 26.5 minutes 11.3 pts 9.0 rebs 1.4 blks 0.9stls 2.1tos 2.7pfs
0.530 2p% 0.485 3p% 0.716 ft%
Positives in his game
-Great build and frame
-Powerful and uses his strength to his advantage in the paint against defenders
-Good post up defender
-Great rebounder and good ability to box out
-Capable shooting the 3
-Decent ft shooter
-Hook shot
-Defensive potential because of build
Negatives in his game
-Poor offensive player
-No post moves aside from the hook
-Poor footwork
-Low bball iq on both ends of the floor
-Stone hands
-Poor PnR defender
-Looks lost at times on D and placement on the floor
-Lacks skill and relies more on strength
-High foul rate and bites on a lot of fakes
-Even with 7'4 wingspan, not a very good blocker
I think there are more negatives than positives. Next year the kings have Jason Thompson, Carl Landry, Reggie Evans, Quincy Acy, and Derrick Williams available at PF and under contract. A lot of people claim that he's a great defender, but everything on tape does not suggest that. He's not that rim protector that fans have been dying for and he's not a great defender. He has defensive potential, but I don't see how he will make this team's defense better. What does he offer that JT doesn't? I don't like comparing players, but he sounds like a JT duplicate with less offense. Great rebounder, good post up defender, good ft shooter for size, and stone hands. What would he offer that JT doesn't?
Someone compared our starting 3 core scoring to GS's.(Can't find it) There is no comparison. The Warriors have 3 scoring guys who have the ability to share the ball and do not go iso on every other play. They also have 2 other supporting players who are great defenders and unselfish players.
Thompson would pass up a good shot for a better shot. We hardly see any full team ball movement with the kings. I've said it before, the kings will not win with the trio of DMC, IT, and Gay. I think the mist of the problem is Gay. As great of a player he is, he goes on iso way too much. He's not a point forward as that experiment in Toronto and here has failed. He's a good scorer, but his scoring doesn't help the kings. The only way I can see the kings building a team around DMC is if we have a pass first pg in the starting lineup and let Gay go.
I think if we were drafting at 7, we'd be in a difficult position. Since Cauley Stein is not declaring for the draft, I don't see great options here. The kings should trade down and draft a pg and defensive stoppers. I've suggested the team look into Elfrid Payton who is a late 1st rounder. Great defensive pass first pg. He needs to work on his jumper, but he can score in many ways.
Thompson would pass up a good shot for a better shot. We hardly see any full team ball movement with the kings. I've said it before, the kings will not win with the trio of DMC, IT, and Gay. I think the mist of the problem is Gay. As great of a player he is, he goes on iso way too much. He's not a point forward as that experiment in Toronto and here has failed. He's a good scorer, but his scoring doesn't help the kings. The only way I can see the kings building a team around DMC is if we have a pass first pg in the starting lineup and let Gay go.
I think if we were drafting at 7, we'd be in a difficult position. Since Cauley Stein is not declaring for the draft, I don't see great options here. The kings should trade down and draft a pg and defensive stoppers. I've suggested the team look into Elfrid Payton who is a late 1st rounder. Great defensive pass first pg. He needs to work on his jumper, but he can score in many ways.
Yes, Rudy Gay went on a very strange perimeter ISO binge toward the end of the season, but he showed us that he's just about as monstrous in the post as Cousins. Gay and Cousins in the post in the playoffs would be devastating, and I think the team should be built around that idea. If there's an expendable in our trio, then it's Isaiah Thomas.
I think we looked best when our defense lead to IT pushing the pace and finding our athletes on the wings, while the halfcourt consisted of Cousins post ups and Gay playing more off the ball than in ISO situations. Gay looked much better coming off of screens for quick hit mid range jumpers, cutting to the rim and working a pick and roll trio with IT, Gay, Cousins, when those 3 guys are moving with a purpose in the halfcourt we are dangerous. We looked our worst when our offense consisted strictly of giving it to Cousins or Gay and getting out of the way. The best teams run a lot because their defense allows them to get out on the break(Thunder, Heat).
Not sure people grasp what we have in cousins. While it would be great to get more easy transition points off of defensive turnovers, we don't currently have the personel that get those. More importantly, do we want to neglect our greatest asset by throwing him in to a run and fun system designed to hide the fact that a team lacks a dominant low post player?
lol, what both those teams he mentioned have are elite wing players and no true low post presence. they have to run to make up for the lack of a low post presence they can throw the ball to and say get us a bucket big fella. perk? ibaka? birdman? haslem? oden? adams? bosh? all the ones listed w/ the exception of bosh can get a bucket on the block. however hes perched out on the 3 point line to clear room for james and wade to operate.
Notice neither of those teams have a 5'7" non-defensive PG starting for them. Yes they get out and run, but they're stacked with defensive talent first and foremost. And pretending the Heat or OKC don't excel in the halfcourt misses the point. Yes they run at times, but it's halfcourt basketball which wins in the playoffs and is their basic/foundation for success, along with top shelf defense. That you don't understand Boogie's or Rudy's role in a playoff situation and are implying we'd be better running and gunning with little IT is, let's say, quite humorous.
Basically, what you think is our best, is fools gold and won't get us anywhere near where OKC/Miami are. The starting point for any serious playoff team is the ability to excel offensively in grind-it-out halfcourt sets, and play lockdown defense. Running and gunning as a priority is a gimmick.
JWill vs Bibby should be a great example for Kings fans. The highlight real, up and down, gunning JWill would not have taken this team to the heights the more methodical Bibby did. Really, what we need at the PG spot is steadiness above all else. That's what Bibby offered. Steady as well. Being very steady, night in, night out, in your ability to run the team. JWill was unpredictable. IT is pretty unpredictable at times. He sure isn't steady, especially late in games and up and down basketball by nature isn't steady. It's not a style you can rely on when the going gets tough. It's also why while BJax was a more explosive scorer than Bibby and a more athletic, open court player, he was far less steady and would have been the worse option to start, something Rick obviously knew.
Basically, what you think is our best, is fools gold and won't get us anywhere near where OKC/Miami are. The starting point for any serious playoff team is the ability to excel offensively in grind-it-out halfcourt sets, and play lockdown defense. Running and gunning as a priority is a gimmick.
JWill vs Bibby should be a great example for Kings fans. The highlight real, up and down, gunning JWill would not have taken this team to the heights the more methodical Bibby did. Really, what we need at the PG spot is steadiness above all else. That's what Bibby offered. Steady as well. Being very steady, night in, night out, in your ability to run the team. JWill was unpredictable. IT is pretty unpredictable at times. He sure isn't steady, especially late in games and up and down basketball by nature isn't steady. It's not a style you can rely on when the going gets tough. It's also why while BJax was a more explosive scorer than Bibby and a more athletic, open court player, he was far less steady and would have been the worse option to start, something Rick obviously knew.
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When did I ever say run and gun? Others said we should just run more because we suck. My opinion is that there is such thing as good running, Malone in theory wants this team to be a good defensive team so getting stops and getting easy baskets in transition can't be viewed as anything but positive. The thing is we suck at defense, with the exception of a few games here and there where we were semi-clicking together on defense, getting stops and getting easy transition baskets(which I felt are the games where we looked our best, a game at New Orleans rings a bell, the one where we blew it open early). No team in the NBA plays that 90's style of playing hard defense and walking the ball up the floor that some on here seem to want. Theres Don Nelson ball and then there are teams that get easy baskets off of good defense, they pick and choose when to speed up the game and when to slow it down. To just walk the ball up the floor for 95% of the game because in theory that wins playoff games is beyond moronic. My example of the Heat and Thunder are just cases of teams that run with a purpose, we are nowhere near approaching those levels, but if Malone is indeed trying to build towards a team that pride's itself on defense, then being effective in transition will also be important.
Well, of course those players are almost, if not equally good at creating for others as creating their own shot. This Kirk Goldsberry piece points out that LeBron is second in the league in assisting corner 3s, one of the most efficient and effective shots in the game. Meanwhile, it notes that unassisted corner 3s are rare, unwise, and of course concludes with a gif of Rudy Gay attempting such a shot while double teamed. Cheap and anecdotal certainly, but it sorta drives the comparison home.
Actually I posted most of the available info along with a video in the prospects forum about three months ago. I'm assuming that all the other stuff is your opinion. Mine is different. Not on everything, and not to the same degree. And by the way, he's 18 years old, not 19. He won't be 19 years old until august 24th of this year.
I hope you're right and there is a good deal out there for us. I don't see one "sure thing" player in this draft. Sure, there will be some that might pan out in 2-3 years, but we don't have that kind of time. If we can trade the pick for a very good veteran player(s) and maybe shed some dead weight at the same time (Landry comes to mind) that would be ideal.
While better than last year, this draft was completely overhyped, IMO.
While better than last year, this draft was completely overhyped, IMO.
Sorry, I had to fix your post. Please continue...
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Thomas-5678/
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Isaiah-Thomas-5678/
Who said run and gun? You're dishonestly creating a straw man. Did the Lakers run and gun with Kareem and Wilt? Did Walton's Portland Trail Blazers run and gun? Get serious, or at least honest. Nobody is talking about the return of Westhead's run on made baskets and on every possession game plan. That's just nonsense. What this team should be doing is run on every defensive rebound and every turnover, whenever they can. If that is in fact their goal, (Malone said he wanted a "controlled fast break")they've done a terrible job of it.
Instead of the straw man argument, how 'bout talking about how this team constantly has to dribble the ball up the floor. And when they dribble they take turns: I'll take my turn, you take yours. Look, I have the ball in my possession; therefore I can dribble up the floor and be the point guard for this possession; this is where I can get my "touches"; oops, I shouldn't have thrown the ball out of bounds or gotten that turnover; sorry, my bad. Or, you see the hesitancy: should I give the ball up to someone else, or should I take it up the floor? What exactly should I be doing with the ball? There is obviously no clear cut plan on this team how to run off of defensive rebounds. It's as if the definition of a guard is "anyone who can defensively rebound the ball." Heck, Cousins chided Evans to push the ball up the floor on a defensive rebound. That's freaking great. We have the best player/leader chiding Evans of all people for not being the "guard" on a fast break. What does that tell you about the entire "game plan" for running fast breaks on this team? It tells me there isn't any, or if there is, Cousins' didn't get the memo.
When have you seen the trailer hit for a 3 on a fast break on a "controlled fast break"? How many fast breaks have we seen where there is an outlet pass, followed by another pass, followed by another pass, followed by a layup without the ball ever touching the floor? If there was one of those during the entire season, it would have made freaking history on this team.
Instead of the straw man argument, how 'bout talking about how this team constantly has to dribble the ball up the floor. And when they dribble they take turns: I'll take my turn, you take yours. Look, I have the ball in my possession; therefore I can dribble up the floor and be the point guard for this possession; this is where I can get my "touches"; oops, I shouldn't have thrown the ball out of bounds or gotten that turnover; sorry, my bad. Or, you see the hesitancy: should I give the ball up to someone else, or should I take it up the floor? What exactly should I be doing with the ball? There is obviously no clear cut plan on this team how to run off of defensive rebounds. It's as if the definition of a guard is "anyone who can defensively rebound the ball." Heck, Cousins chided Evans to push the ball up the floor on a defensive rebound. That's freaking great. We have the best player/leader chiding Evans of all people for not being the "guard" on a fast break. What does that tell you about the entire "game plan" for running fast breaks on this team? It tells me there isn't any, or if there is, Cousins' didn't get the memo.
When have you seen the trailer hit for a 3 on a fast break on a "controlled fast break"? How many fast breaks have we seen where there is an outlet pass, followed by another pass, followed by another pass, followed by a layup without the ball ever touching the floor? If there was one of those during the entire season, it would have made freaking history on this team.
Sorry, I had to fix your post again...
He's been measured in shoes 4 times. If you average all of those measurements, he is 5'10.3" in shoes, and the lowest he has been measured in shoes is 5'9.5" in 2009.
I'll trust a tape measure over your eyes any day.
EDIT: I'll trust four tape measures over your eyes any day.
He's been measured in shoes 4 times. If you average all of those measurements, he is 5'10.3" in shoes, and the lowest he has been measured in shoes is 5'9.5" in 2009.
I'll trust a tape measure over your eyes any day.
EDIT: I'll trust four tape measures over your eyes any day.
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It's kinda odd, that it seems that with the taller guys everyone talks about their height including shoes, but then with the shortest guys they'll choose the lowest number possible..the without shoes measurement. Round up the tall guys and round down for the shorter players. It's like finding any way to exaggerate the extremes. Strange
I find it very difficult to discredit four separate measurements who have him all within a similar range (5'9.5"-5'11") because someone stood next to him and guessed his height at 5'7". It's just plain silly.
I don't blame you for not giving a s***if I trust you or not, but when I see incorrect information brought forth, I tend to refute it.
I don't blame you for not giving a s***if I trust you or not, but when I see incorrect information brought forth, I tend to refute it.
I know several people who have made the exact same comment as rainmaker. Refute all you like, but I'll believe my lying eyes and those of close personal friends over some measurements that have a +/- of an inch and a half.
You guys can continue to quibble over minutiae but bottom line is still pretty clear. Isaiah Thomas is SHORT for a point guard in the NBA. Period.
You guys can continue to quibble over minutiae but bottom line is still pretty clear. Isaiah Thomas is SHORT for a point guard in the NBA. Period.
I'd actually like to see us try and trade our pick if we don't end up moving into the top three. Maybe we could create a package feauturing IT/2014 first rounder for Rondo/???. If somehow we could pull this off, we would see:
1 - Rondo
2 - McLemore
3 - Gay (f he picks up his option)
4 - veteran FA
5 - Cousins
Bench:
1 - McCallum
2 - Terry (?)
3 - Williams, Outlaw
4 - Landry, Evans
5 - Thompson
The bench could use some work obviously, but McCallum could be a good floor general for the second unit, Williams can become a nice weapon off the bench if he can improve on his consistency, and JT would be a very good third big. Also, we may pick up another good player with our second-round pick, hopefully a solid guard.
1 - Rondo
2 - McLemore
3 - Gay (f he picks up his option)
4 - veteran FA
5 - Cousins
Bench:
1 - McCallum
2 - Terry (?)
3 - Williams, Outlaw
4 - Landry, Evans
5 - Thompson
The bench could use some work obviously, but McCallum could be a good floor general for the second unit, Williams can become a nice weapon off the bench if he can improve on his consistency, and JT would be a very good third big. Also, we may pick up another good player with our second-round pick, hopefully a solid guard.
It's silly until you stand 5ft away from the guy and he's practically the same exact height as the 5'6" person I was with.
Yet, you haven't stood next to him. Go stand next to him, then get back to me. But generally, I really don't care how much stock you put in four guys with measuring tape who can't agree on his height either.
And don't make me start correcting your posts. You apparently don't know what the word "incorrect" means, nor how to use it in a sentence.
Yet, you haven't stood next to him. Go stand next to him, then get back to me. But generally, I really don't care how much stock you put in four guys with measuring tape who can't agree on his height either.
And don't make me start correcting your posts. You apparently don't know what the word "incorrect" means, nor how to use it in a sentence.
Considering the variance in measurements, I'll choose the eyeballing, especially when I know for a fact how tall some of the people are who have stood next to him ... but I concede that it's not the perfect solution.
Short is short. I know, I've been 5'1" since I was 14. There are things I cannot easily do as a grownup because of my height. It's a fact of life. It's a fact of life for Isaiah, too. I applaud his heart, his effort and his dedication and hope we can find a way to keep him here (preferably as our sixth man), but I will not pretend there aren't liabilities to having a player who is vertically challenged going up guys considerably taller than he every single night.
Short is short. I know, I've been 5'1" since I was 14. There are things I cannot easily do as a grownup because of my height. It's a fact of life. It's a fact of life for Isaiah, too. I applaud his heart, his effort and his dedication and hope we can find a way to keep him here (preferably as our sixth man), but I will not pretend there aren't liabilities to having a player who is vertically challenged going up guys considerably taller than he every single night.